Curse

Miral · Jun 25, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

On a different note, did someone just mention Charr Salvage Kits? Are those "EXPERT!" salvage kits in pre???? Wow, I really need to make a pre-character.

yes.... 5 charge expert salvage kits that drop as golds off of charr bosses.

JeniM · Jun 25, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Yes the Char Salvage kits are expert ones

And Plains of Jarin ~100% drop rate after first 10 or so

lyra_song · Jun 25, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

You have to remember. PARTY SIZES ARE MUCH SMALLER.

A party of 1 out of a maximum of 4 gets WAY more loot than 1 out of a maximum of 8.

Thats why it seems like theres less loot scaling.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jun 25, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

No - I don't think party size can explain it.

I am over 1000 enemies killed trying this out and, except for the 1st 5- 8 killed in an area and the rare time when I kill large numbers at once, the rate is 100% drops. There is no way that the smaller party explanation can fit for this. Also, I have had a perma pre character for some time and this is absolutely different than it was when loot scaling came out. Even though the party size in pre is limited to 2, not every beast dropped something under loot scaling. Now they consistently do. There has definitely been a change.

By the way, the first 5-8 will not necessarily be the first group you encounter. If you run past them and kill the next group, the first 5-8 mobs in that group will not drop consistently. So it looks like it is counting the first 5-8 you kill no matter if they are right out the door or in the middle of the map I suspect that is to prevent bots from skipping the first group and just moving on to the next.

Miral · Jun 25, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

You have to remember. PARTY SIZES ARE MUCH SMALLER.

A party of 1 out of a maximum of 4 gets WAY more loot than 1 out of a maximum of 8.

Thats why it seems like theres less loot scaling.

you have to remember, hard mode has the same party size limit as normal mode

manitoba1073 · Jun 26, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47

OK Ill try to explain it as simple as possible. First it is random.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

That is just the effects of Loot Scalling alone on soloing, with HM involved the only difference is you have a higher chance on the exemptions dropping instead of whites. In NM Its similar without the higher chance of exemptions dropping, while still being exempt.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jun 26, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Ok - while math is a good thing, it is only as good as the assumptions that go into it.

You are making the assumption that ANet begins with 100% drop for any area and that the drop rate is then scaled according to party size with a drop rate for a solo party in an 8 man area being about 1/4 that of the drop rate for a party of 8 (based on ANet's statement that a solo player should get about twice times the drops he/she would have received in a part of 8).

The assumption you are making is that the same reduction in drop rate would apply in all areas - so that a party of 1 in pre-searing would have the same drop rate as a party of 7 in an 8 man area - but, since the single player gets all the drops and adding in exempt items, that would come out to about 98%

However, math is only as good as the assumption and the problem with your figures is that your assumption was incorrect. I have already noted that under loot scaling the experienced solo drop rate was about 3 in 5 for pre-searing. that is about 66%. That indicates that ANet was not using the same reduction per person in lower party areas they were using in 8 player areas.

Secondly, it is always a good idea to test your hypotheses. As I pointed out, drop rate has been 100% (after the first 5-8 kills) for Sunqua Vale, Saoshang trail, Panjiang Peninsula (all 4 man areas). According to your figures that should have been a 56% rate. To see if this held true for other areas I tried Haiju Lagoon. I died fighting a large group of Kappas but had killed 79 beasts (after excluding the first 5 kills) with a 100% drop rate. According to your figures I should only have received 32 drops instead of the 79 I actually received.

I also want to note that last night I tried the only area I can solo in hard mode -trapping vamps in Urgoz. I wanted to see how loot scaling was applying in later areas so I did it in normal. The drop rate in normal there was significantly higher (though of much lower quality) than hard mode.

However, it is a very limited area and, since I am using traps, I usually have several kills at once (which others have said throws off the drop rate). I would be interested to see what the drop rate is in normal for later areas now. If there is anyone who can solo later areas in normal mode without using skills that kill multiple targets at once, it would be helpful to see your date.

Edit - just tried soloing outside Bergen Hot Springs - I had a bad build for the area but managed to kill 25 mobs before I died and (excluding the first 5 kills) all of them dropped something.

Travelers Vale and Old Ascalon - 100% drop rate after first 5 kills in each

Just did most of Pongmei Valley with 3 heroes - 32 drops in 100 kills - about what I would have expected with 4 man H&H party before loot scaling and certainly more than I was getting since loot scaling.

Pretty sure loot scaling is gone in normal mode!

phallanxian · Jun 26, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

anyone tried smite runs in the uw yet

edit just tried and drops were a lot better than usuall didn't make an exact count but i reckon better than 50% drop rate

Sazgo · Jul 06, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

hmm, i just did the turai's procession margonite farm twice on normal mode and its still the same crappy loot scaling 6-9 whites for over 70 margnoties.
Its just effected specific areas or something

manitoba1073 · Jul 06, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alas Poor Yorick

Ok - while math is a good thing, it is only as good as the assumptions that go into it.

You are making the assumption that ANet begins with 100% drop for any area and that the drop rate is then scaled according to party size with a drop rate for a solo party in an 8 man area being about 1/4 that of the drop rate for a party of 8 (based on ANet's statement that a solo player should get about twice times the drops he/she would have received in a part of 8).

The assumption you are making is that the same reduction in drop rate would apply in all areas - so that a party of 1 in pre-searing would have the same drop rate as a party of 7 in an 8 man area - but, since the single player gets all the drops and adding in exempt items, that would come out to about 98%

However, math is only as good as the assumption and the problem with your figures is that your assumption was incorrect. I have already noted that under loot scaling the experienced solo drop rate was about 3 in 5 for pre-searing. that is about 66%. That indicates that ANet was not using the same reduction per person in lower party areas they were using in 8 player areas.

Secondly, it is always a good idea to test your hypotheses. As I pointed out, drop rate has been 100% (after the first 5-8 kills) for Sunqua Vale, Saoshang trail, Panjiang Peninsula (all 4 man areas). According to your figures that should have been a 56% rate. To see if this held true for other areas I tried Haiju Lagoon. I died fighting a large group of Kappas but had killed 79 beasts (after excluding the first 5 kills) with a 100% drop rate. According to your figures I should only have received 32 drops instead of the 79 I actually received.

I also want to note that last night I tried the only area I can solo in hard mode -trapping vamps in Urgoz. I wanted to see how loot scaling was applying in later areas so I did it in normal. The drop rate in normal there was significantly higher (though of much lower quality) than hard mode.

However, it is a very limited area and, since I am using traps, I usually have several kills at once (which others have said throws off the drop rate). I would be interested to see what the drop rate is in normal for later areas now. If there is anyone who can solo later areas in normal mode without using skills that kill multiple targets at once, it would be helpful to see your date.

Edit - just tried soloing outside Bergen Hot Springs - I had a bad build for the area but managed to kill 25 mobs before I died and (excluding the first 5 kills) all of them dropped something.

Travelers Vale and Old Ascalon - 100% drop rate after first 5 kills in each

Just did most of Pongmei Valley with 3 heroes - 32 drops in 100 kills - about what I would have expected with 4 man H&H party before loot scaling and certainly more than I was getting since loot scaling.

Pretty sure loot scaling is gone in normal mode!

No you are wrong. I wasnt making a single assumption about loot scaling and all your little stuff is far more a baseless assumption on the wrong workings of loot scaling.

No the reason im not wrong is very very very simple. Anerf has givin us the only thing we need to know of loot scaling, ITS BASED ON PARTY SIZE and NOTHING ELSE. You can do the math yourself if you want, but in an 8 man area in a full group the chance for each and every player to get the drop is roughly 12.5%. Because no matter what you want to think 8 of 8 is 100% and 1 of 8 is 12.5. Now a solo person will get roughly twice as much.